Looking forward to the interview! Today the church has suffered too many blows to its claims of certainty to dare to treat its members the way it treated Brent Metcalfe. Do as I say and not as I do. This was something I surmised most of my adult life. But it has not always been that way or worked in his favor. This was an awesome interview. Im not saying you need to have spiritual experiences to validate your work by any means if the facts are facts, but a higher power confirmation always helps. Many of the writers did become illustrious personalities, exactly as you point out. In other words, if it is an intrinsic aspect of a tradition to make historical claims or assertions about the underlying nature of the world, the falsification of those claims essentially undermines the character of that tradition. Hibbard later had a dream in which he again. If Catholicism were ultimately true, for example, then in the final accounting its dogmatic claims would not be hamstringing- they would serve as a clarifying lens through which to analyze historical questions, a lens which helps the believing scholar from wasting his time investigating a false path. Download . Ive known many of Brents views (his liking Raymond Brown, etc.) "[10], Naifeh, S., & Smith, G. W. (2005). A member of the LDS Church reports he was excommunicated for apostasy on February 2nd, 2013. Jerald articulated his concerns in one of his ministrys publications. My application of Vatican II was specifically intended for the work of Catholic biblical scholars, not Catholicism in toto. Save my name, email, and website in this browser for the next time I comment. Like I said they were casting that net as wide as they could get it. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Michigan_relics. Before Mark Hoffman was exposed as a forger, was there anything that made you wonder how he managed to make so many great finds? Your excommunication reveals more about your accusers than it says about you. In Part 1, Brent talks about his early days in the Church and his time working for Church security. Salamander: The story of the Mormon forgery murders. The weaker the church gets the better it gets and when it is completely impotent and ceases to exist it will be the best it can ever be. Why do you think it is that the church is so fearful of discoveries such as the letters by Mark H ? pigella miraculous ladybug power. After returning from Iraq after the 2nd deployment as a citizen soldier, I had the same epiphany as Brent; I learned that we are really on our own, there is no God. It is not possible for me to tell how long I remained in that situation, as everything earthly was gone from me for some time. The interview was superb and the insight into this extraordinary life was gifted. This is one of the best MS interviews I have heard so far. Ive followed Mormon stories for several years now and listed to most of the episodes and this interview with Brent Metcalfe is in my top 5 MS podcasts. If you hadnt been excommunicated would you still be a member today? When Brent Metcalfe compiled a book of essays last year suggesting that Mormonism's founding scripture wasn't the ancient history it purports to be, he expected some criticism. Did any of these projects or research ever prove anything? And how many. Unfortunately, much of the middle portion of the interview was lost due to technical issues that were only discovered after we completed the interview. So, so good. He remains an enigma. Can you offer any insight to this? the tall man aboriginal spirit; metadata api request failed: component conversion failed: file_ended; caleb foote sandlot Brent Metcalfe, Sue's husband of 23 years, is doing everything he can to support both Sue and Samantha. Few people had more of a front-row seat than Brent Metcalfe to the goings-on surrounding Mark Hofmann, the Salamander Letter, and the tragic events of October 1985 what would be dubbed as the Mormon Murders.. brent metcalfe excommunicatedperpetual futures binance. In the past, we often got snippets of information in The Church News, The view of the Lamb on mount Sion gave me joy unspeakable and full of glory. Thank you for this interview. About a year or so ago when I finally left the church I looked him up to get advice and catch up on old times. Historian Brent Metcalfe says he was fired by the church out of fear he'd publish something they didn't like. Its great to find all this background information. :( Will re-record hopefully soon! Thank you for this very interesting presentation. Resolved: Release in which this issue/RFE has been resolved. And am I the only one who likes the older music better? Thank you for sharing it with me. Brent is generally a giant in Mormon Studies, and is a great guy. Thanks for the clarification, Brent. Published by on October 31, 2021. You didnt elaborate on that interpretation. When will the big book about the Egytian papers be out? Seventh East Press. brent metcalfe excommunicated. Metcalfe is on the editorial board of the John Whitmer Historical Association. You sound like a delightful guy. Also, I appreciate you bringing up ADD. I hope to move on some day as well. Brents work is groundbreaking and reliably fascinating. I thought your essay in New Approaches was excellent, and certainly complicates traditional understandings of the Book of Mormon; you obviously dont believe the BoM is historical in any way, but Id also guess you would acknowledge the impressive complexity of it. For more information, please see our He said that a response finally came not from Hofmann but from one of the Lafferty brothers who was apparently Hofmanns cell mate or on the same block or something like that. It didnt have anything to do with church history or anything you would read in something like the CES letter, but was instead a realization and acceptance that its not me, its the church followed by a complete collapse of everything. By rejecting non-essential cookies, Reddit may still use certain cookies to ensure the proper functionality of our platform. The Gift of the Mormon Faith Crisis Podcast. I appreciate the details of Brents experience. I felt like somehow I was responsible for what had happened. But thats when he came across books arguing the truthfulness of Mormonism and began questioning the same. I sensed a full range of colors in the photo that is this interview. We were both greenies at the same time. Interested to hear about your mission, did you serve in Wandsworth at all? My examples are numerous and heart breaking. October 20, 2021. The Book of Abraham? He was going to have him thrown out of the church. Honestly, incredible work. I have one teensy-tiny criticism about Johns sensitivity when someone questioned why Brent did not pursue an advanced degree. saw heaven open, and Jesus at the right hand of God, and the Heavenly hosts surrounding the throne, adoring the Father and the Son in the most sublime strains, (Hibbard, _Memoirs_, 181; cf. Get all the information related to Cardinal Health Nps Online - Make website login easier than ever The membership on the website. Let me be equally clear that I dont believe that the BoAbr is an authentic translation of the papyri he possessed. In Part 3, Brent discusses the aftermath of the Hofmann murders, including the trial and Hoffman's eventual plea deal. In it, Metcalfe himself wrote an essay that was the first to advance the Mosiah priority theory, or that Joseph Smith began dictating the Book of Mormon from the Book of Mosiah. Please let us know. Fantastic interviews. I think that it speaks volumes about their powers of discernment and what they truly think about Joseph Smith. Brent Metcalfe is definitely one of my favorite interviewees ever on Mormon Stories Podcast. I clearly remember the frustration in her voice. I need help with casting ZEE5 on my TV. SALT LAKE CITY Egyptologist Ed Ashment sympathizes with Washington anthropologist for now has escaped excommunication from the LDS Church. Thanks again for your contribution to Mormon Studies and particularly for your diplomatic engagement with your critics. 497: Brent Metcalfe Part 3 -- After the Hofmann bombings and his excommunication (Podcast Episode 2014) on IMDb: Movies, TV, Celebs, and more. And theres no way that you can change it. Unresolved: Release in which this issue/RFE will be addressed. Two more parts (3 & 4) to come. Tom, have you considered allowing John to interview you? And it leaves this distrust in LDS leaders hanging with the viewer. So my question is, what if the effort for the book of Abraham was an attempt by JS and his close friends to deliver an esoteric masterpiece. Thats something each person must decide for themselves, but Ive made peace with my own interpretation.. It was stillbecause it all drove from the incredibility of the whole thing. what happens if i ignore a ccj; Or even presenting the center view? The second half was fascinating thank you, thank you, thank you for this podcast! Please, God, let this podcast inspire someone to produce a talk show called, Hot-tubbing with Mark Hoffman! It was soul-crushing, Brent said. Thanks for the clarification. Why are they so adamant about excommunicating someone who has a different opinion than they do? She is professor emeritus of history at Read more In Part 4, Brent examines some of the issues surrounding traditional approaches to the Book of Mormon. But I feel that sometimes secular scholars, perhaps in an effort to be diplomatic, perhaps for other reasons, underestimate and understate the inevitability of open conflict with a religious tradition they study. Ive heard there might. Wrestling for coach Roy Hall at Davison High School in Michigan, Metcalf finished as arguably the #1 overall recruit with a career record of 228-0 with . In Part 2, Brent describes working for and with Steve Christensen and Mark Hofmann, the Salamander Letter episode, and the bombings that took the lives of Steve and Kathy Sheets. Thank You for contributing your experiences with us all I am curious this morning about the possibility of any reports during the time JS says he had his First Vision, that were published in local newspapers, town Crier printings? As for the photocopy of Wilford Poulsons parallel, yes, I still have it in one of hundreds of boxes in a storage unit while my house is being remodeled. You guys at MS are doing great. What is not to love about Johns revelation of your worthy biceps? Is it paramount to understand all of these religious histories and come to terms with them or, Brant for people like you and me, would it be better to turn our talents toward uncovering and deciphering Gobekli Tepe, a stone temple complex built 12,000 years ago at the end of the last ice age in Turkey, built by the Watchers of the Book of Enoch and the Anunnaki gods of Sumerian tradition? It would yield some satisfaction to me, if my misery can be a cause of happiness to others; but when I came to the place of prayer, had kneeled down, and closed my eyes, with my hands uplifted toward the heavens, I saw Jesus Christ at the right hand of God looking down upon me, and God the Father looking upon him. Brent Metcalf is entering his fifth season as a full-time assistant coach on Iowa State's wrestling staff. Its very sunny in London today and Ive listened too all eleven hours of this interview. I am still cringing from the realizations about the lack of discernment and the deliberate efforts on the part of the GAs. Lex, the recommendation by Andrew is a good resource. Hamblin Methodological discussions have become commonplace in Mormon studies. Some suggest that energy-conservation constraints favored our thoughts sliding along low-resistance neural ruts that include simple feel-good narratives. John, please interview Mark Hoffman someday if you can! How have things changed over the decades? Come to the dark side and tell your story. He eventually concluded that the document was not an actual historical account and compiled a book of essays suggesting the same, entitling it New Approaches to the Book of Mormon: Explorations in Critical Methodology, published in the 90s. Excellent question. Sandra was criticized by some Mormon Stories listeners for not being as critical of Christianity as she was of Mormonism. I believe Brent said he has the copy in his records.**. ), systematically undermining Church teachings on the law of chastity and the . I always enjoyed our discussions years ago about your love for the Indians in your mission and then your experience doing research with their culture and you feelings towards the Book of Mormon. The confessionals in the documentary of Hofmann's associates, such as Shannon Flynn, Brent Metcalf and George Throckmorton are captivating. End of my short story. Im not sure why I would have been hesitant to answer the question during the interview since Ive addressed it numerous timesIll have to go back and listen. That said, I have to wonder what planet hes living on when he says that Catholicism has been reinvigorated in the post Vatican II era. 2023 Cinemaholic Inc. All rights reserved. o David Wright was excommunicated for apostasy in April 1994 for his nontraditional views on Mormon scripture as exhibited in essays like his chapter in New Approaches to the Book of Mormon. I served a mission with the missionary mentioned by Brent. I was hoping you would have spoken more about the Book of Mormon and Abraham. Im pretty sure I was standing next to Maxine. Not because it marked the end of the University of Iowa's senior's prestigious and highly . I do not have that ability as I actually changed an Economics major when I took my first accounting class. Learn how your comment data is processed. sorry, the book is called The Joseph Smith Egyptian Papyri, Not a question but I would very much like to hear Brents response to Kerry Muhlesteins recent FAIRMormon Conference presentation on the Book of Abraham. In the highly anticipated follow up to our first interview, Brent Metcalfe continues his story. Reply. John and I recorded an additional four hours (till 1 AM). Definitely one of my top 10 favorite stories on here. He also discusses the events leading up to, and including, his excommunication. What if we are all chasing literal meanings of words such as translation, ages and names while in effect they are meant to have symbolic meaning and by this to explain esoteric principles to insiders. It seems like in the aftermath of the bombings, combined with his zeal to argue the history of Mormonism, Brent Metcalfe was excommunicated from The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints. From Spencer Kimballs battle with dementia to Monsons where the hell is that driver, to the insights with Mark E Peterson, Brents influential instructors at the University of Utah. Azerbaijan's Jabrayil Hasanov in action against The USA's Brent Metcalf. Isnt that a dangerous and at least weak and anything goes approach, especially for fanatical groups? Thank you. During the first part of his interview, usually John will ask a question about gaining a testimony while in the Mormon church or have spiritual experiences and then pairing those experiences with the Mormon narrative. This unleashed a veritable deluge of Catholic contributions to modern biblical scholarship. A scene from John Dehlin's upcoming disciplinary council, probably. The lack of discernment all the way back throughout all the church history The lack of congruence among the leadership with such a claim as who they say is at the head! As coincidence would have it, a few months later I became her home teacher. When discussing some of the details surrounding the Book of Abraham, he mentioned the Tale of Onidas and Kitumen. I have never heard of that before and cannot find anything about it. Regardless of what one takes to be the truth of things, the evidence is not in favor of liberal religiosity as a recipe for church growth- those churches and communities which move away from their traditional truth claims tend to atrophy relatively speedily. But once Mormonism got involved, it turned everything upside down. Dave, Ive planned on publishing a book for years; but Ive decided to publish a series of articles first that the book will build upon. For the listeners who are curious, a portion of the book describes a first vision, copied below: https://play.google.com/books/reader?printsec=frontcover&output=reader&id=XH0rAAAAYAAJ&pg=GBS.PA54, The Lamb once slain appeared to my understanding, and while viewing him, I felt such love to him as I never felt to anything earthly. That was fascinating, thank you. [9][4], After being fired from his job in security for the LDS Church for his writings, Metcalfe worked first for Steve Christensen and later for Mark Hofmann. As a teenager and still TBM I read some books on the Hoffman Salamander Letter and events surrounding it. Yes, thats the book, though the volume I perused was the first (1816) edition published in Portsmouth, NH. "Everybody that ever dealt with Mark Hofmann was a victim of his, and of his deception, and I think it's just kind of a . Thanks for this podcast! They claim that it occurred here in the USA siting scriptures and other things Joseph smith said. Indeed, the trivial matters that many theists assert as claiming the attention of God (even as hell is meanwhilebreaking loose) is absurd evidently too absurd for many to even grasp. The gift of your ADHD shines. Would a hypothesis like that hold any water? Brent provided a detailed account of the Mark Hoffman story with a perspective that we seldom hear. Yes! None of this means that believing scholars and secular scholars have to treat each other poorly or that we cannot respect (even in the midst of serious disagreement) each others work. Brent_Metcalfe 7 yr. ago To clarify 4blockhead's list. Thank you Brandt for sharing your experiences. 1. Leave a Reply Cancel reply. Powered by WordPress.com VIP. [4] Metcalfe assisted Hofmann in leaking the existence of the letter to the press, contrary to the wishes of the LDS Church. The message was discovered after his review had gone to press and had to be edited out. By accepting all cookies, you agree to our use of cookies to deliver and maintain our services and site, improve the quality of Reddit, personalize Reddit content and advertising, and measure the effectiveness of advertising. I thought you were very well spoken Brent. What an amazing story that Brent was a participant. After admiring the glory of the Lamb for some time, I began to think of the situation my body was in, and rose up to return home. What advice does Brent have for aspiring Mormon historians? [7] The LDS Church fired Brigham Young University professor David Wright for his contribution to the volume, and excommunicated both Wright and Metcalfe shortly thereafter. I would love to hear more about what unfolded after Hoffman, including how you came to be excommunicated, if you care to share that. You are hesitant to answer no evil speaking on what you cant say right ;). In his response, he controversially included an encrypted message spelling out "Metcalfe is Butthead." The 7th East Press was a gem. Should have added one more minor thing. 0% MARRIED So, based on Krakauers shared experience, it sounds like the answer is no, Hofmann doesnt do interviews. Who does he think the last bomb was meant for? The name sounds so familiar (I was a Wandsworth baptism as a teenager in 77). All rights reserved. Yes, because remember that the paradigm speaking through Mikes words is not just representative of him. Once you start to deconstruct Mormonism, the next step is Christianity, and then the existence of a god, or not There are plenty of stops along that road to hang your hat, but the fastest growing belief system around the existence of god, is atheism. In 1539 he was elected as an MP for the rst time and was appointed to serve in the King's Privy Chamber. He is their emotional support and Sue's constant companion, her voice, advocate and her angel. In Part 3, Brent discusses the aftermath of the Hofmann murders, including the trial and Hofmanns eventual plea deal. I especially connected with his comments on ADD. @John, thank you for all the hours you put in. Allegedly, he expressed too much "support" for Denver Snuffer, although by his own account, he would refuse to follow Snuffer if Snuffer had said that the LDS Church had gone totally astray.The individual, who identifies himself as Brent D. Larsen of the Eagle Mountain Utah Stake, discusses the . According to Metcalfe, he was questioned by LDS Church authorities about his writing for the 7EP and Sunstone was "forced to resign" from his job in April 1983. Azerbaijan's Jabrayil Hasanov in action against The USA's Brent Metcalf. The 7th East Press is one of the great university newspapers; truly the stars aligned when this group got together. What a fascinating glimpse. I., **My question is if Brent could provide a copy of the parallels between Elias Snow and Joseph Smith that Wilford Paulson (former BYU professor)inserted into the book. I hope you consider doing this. All this transpired in the 1980s, just around the time Mark Hofmann made his name in the community as a renowned book and document dealer. And I went through a very long phase of just wishing that I had never been born. and our Its a pity Joseph Smith couldnt sit them all down for a good coming-to-Jesus admonishing. What do you attribute this decline to? What scenario for the books origins have you constructed over your many years of study? When you described Hoffmans futile attempts to delay the inevitable meeting where his house of cards would come tumbling down I couldnt help but compare it to the decades-long quest among some of the church leadership to keep the brand pure by weeding out doubters. Hope all is good with you. [9] According to Metcalfe, he had written a letter to LDS Church leader Gordon B. Hinckley, disputing the grounds for his termination. Shortly after returning home and leaving the church he was very active in Sunstone and various things of that nature, but has since moved on with his life and seems very happy with a small family of his own running a small restaurant he and his older brother own together. In fact, Brent was with Mark the night before he caused the first explosion. Brenten "Brent" Metcalfe joined NW3C after working in law enforcement for over 13 years. Wow John, what an interview. This negative sentiment is perhaps made up for by Hofmann's victims. Thanks again Brent for sharing a sketch of your life with us. He has also served in the United States Air Force (Air National Guard) since 2004. From your perspective, what are the 3-5 best pieces of evidence for the historicity of the bom? Brent did Jerald make an official overture to church leadership regarding Hofmann being a fraud? He had not let on that the 7th East Press was his brainchild. Brent Metcalf, age 31, Kingsport, TN Lived in: Greeneville TN, Elizabethton TN, Louisville TN Relatives: Terri Treadway, Kathy Edens, Douglas Metcalf View full report Brent E Metcalf, age 39, Semmes, AL Lived in: Wilmer AL, Theodore AL Relatives: Beverly Metcalf, Thomas Metcalf, Thomas Metcalf View full report What was most poignant to me was Brents description of his failure of faith. You can have a PhD and still not have great knowledge. She has become the matron saint of Mormon studies (that's a promotion from her previous role as the den mother of Mormon studies). Thats what I expected from church leaders.I meanSalamander spirit !! Menu. You seem to be back on your game of simply inviting your guests to tell their stories. John, you asked for information about any of the Christensens. I found this podcast to be very fascinating. Thanks for the great podcast. hillside christian church staff/ brent metcalfe excommunicated Create a Word Cloud at Tagxedo.Com. Once the Catholic scholar feels freed from the ostensible constraints of Catholic theology, it is questionable to what degree his scholarship is distinctively Catholic in the first place. How would it be different from other books that deal with the same subject? It is his sixth season overall with the Cyclones after serving as the volunteer assistant for the 2017-18 season. And how was it working with Mr. Ritner? We should also mention that he has since been a key speaker at a conference hosted by Ex-Mormon Foundation and has given several interviews where he has detailed his lifes ups and downs. Steven Christensen (son of Mr. Mac), one of Mark Hofmanns victims. On the latest episode of Mormon Book Reviews Steven Pynakker interviews one of the most important scholars of Mormonism, Brent Metcalfe. All of these documents are available on the Joseph Smith Papers Project website. [9] Metcalfe and the police were afraid Metcalfe might be a future target he went into hiding. Certainly the reality, was different than the accepted narrative. Thank you so much for the story and the insights. Well also talk in depth with Brent about how he has been able to construct a healthy and happy life outside of Mormonism. How was Christensen reimbursed or rewarded by the Church for his document ventures? I wouldnt presume that Brendt is unaware of this and that his worldview does not follow from this hes well read. I will start my question with a short story to add some perspective. Life seemed euphoric until I was excommunicated from the church because I questioned and I researched. My question is: please discuss this shift or emphasis away from evidences and honest research (study it out in your mind), to just feelings, in regards to determining truth. Liked by Brent Metcalfe Experience Practice Lead - Mergers and Acquisitions/Investment Group and Consultant Backswath Management Sep 2022 - Present6 months Winnipeg, Manitoba, Canada Seeking New. I have been thinking nonstop about that analogy, because it is so illustrative of the disorder. 497: Brent Metcalfe Part 3 -- After the Hofmann bombings and his excommunication (2014 Podcast Episode) Plot Showing all 0 items Jump to: Summaries It looks like we don't have any Plot Summaries for this title yet. Since unit growth of the church is now in decline and growing slower than U.S. and world population growth, how do you see the future of the church and its doctrines? Awesome music, right? Textual Criticism and Editing, Mormon studies, and Book of Mormon. Hofmann really believed he could pull it all off, and maybe it wasnt just the police who thwarted his scheme? There was an overall feeling that he just had it together. Tom Phillips, Simon Southerton, Brent Metcalfe, Jeremy Runnells, Grant Palmer, etc. Brent Metcalfe is definitely one of my favorite interviewees ever on Mormon Stories Podcast. Brent most recently served with the Information Security/Communication Security with the Wyoming Army National Guard as an IT Specialist. I would include many of the arguments given by the critics as well. Why didnt Mr. Metcalfe publish his long-anticipated book disproving the Book of Abraham? The full title is: The life, conversion, preaching, travels, and sufferings of Elias Smith. See the next John Whitmer Historical Association Journal for one of my essays. A question for Brent, What are your thoughts on your research of the book of Abraham? I suppose the precedent was set by Joseph himself in burning down the Nauvoo Expositor because he didnt like the content, and labelled it anti Mormonit wasnt even, William Law was a believer, who could no longer take Josephs hypocrisy. Simply put, I think JSs BoAbr project is an example of JSs *sincerity*, not his fraudulence.